Melbourne-based brothers Josh and Aaron Mak sit down with Interviews Editor, Andrew Irvin, to chat about their recent debut release, Gods Among Men, following a thoroughly successful Kickstarter campaign.
(Content warning: the title under discussion involves the use and sale of illicit drugs.)
COMIC BOOK YETI: Aaron and Josh, welcome to the Yeti Cave! It’s been a little while in a making. How’s everything shaping up since the release of Gods Among Men #1?
AARON MAK: Thanks for having us! It’s been quite a wild ride for Gods Among Men and Cynation Comics as a whole. Since its release in April, we managed to secure stock in 29 stores nationwide across Australia, as well as Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
JOSH MAK: It’s been quite the roller coaster. Simultaneously marketing Gods Among Men while we’ve been working furiously to complete ANA #1, but it’s what we live to do so, wouldn’t have it any other way.
CBY: We met at Supanova Melbourne surrounding the release of Gods Among Men. Can you tell us a bit about how this idea came about? You’ve cited it as a synthesis of ideas paying homage to Breaking and Trainspotting, so what went into the process of bringing the idea for the story to the page in its finished form? When did the idea first arise, and why did you decide that a comic book was the appropriate medium, given your other film and music pursuits?
JM: This is a story that is very close to me. I’ve held onto it for a very long time and now that I’m finally getting to tell it and have people understand it is both a rapturous and cathartic feeling.
AM: Our experience in film made the adaptation process quite seamless, sharing many different elements. Comic books presented themselves as a more direct narrative medium than music, but much more affordable than film. It essentially came down to the difference of “making the story in comic form” or “not at all”.
CBY: Yep, it’s certainly easier to get projects to completion within a budget if you keep them on the page and off the screen. Now, you two are brothers, so I’m curious a bit about your relationship, both as collaborators and more broadly as siblings over the years. Have you always worked well together, or did you come into conflict with each other a lot growing up? How do you separate the creative work from other issues that arise as members of the same family?
AM: I believe our contrasting personalities and our bond growing up together has made us stronger as a duo rather than served as a weakness. Picture this: Josh Mak paces back and forth across the room, spouting ideas as naturally as a wellspring. Meanwhile I sit with intense focus on the couch, furiously typing up dot points on a laptop. Alternatively… he’s dark, brooding Batman and I’m chatty, sexy Nightwing.
JM: Being older, I’m often given credit for raising Aaron in a way that has made him who he is today but I think a lot of credit needs to be given to him as well for being receptive of the lessons. There is a value in being able to discern and listen. Too often we praise leaders but there is much we can learn from disciples too.
CBY: It takes at least two points to create a complete circuit, for sure, but it sounds like there were some others involved. You were joined on the creative team by Ben Sullivan, who handled the pencils, inks, and cover, and Wilson Go, who served as colorist. How did you meet and bring both of them into the process of putting the project together, and at what stage? Did they join for concept art and character design, or did you both share the foundations of the story you built at a later phase in story formulation?
AM: We joined forces with Ben in the early developmental stages of the book, whereas we found Wilson online (who had worked with plenty of Australian talent) at a later stage to give the look of the book the tonal zest. We found them through this great new thing people call the “inter-net”, it’s fantastic, can’t get enough of the stuff.
Being a true-crime story, we worked very closely with Ben to ensure that the world is presented as authentically as possible whilst still enabling him to inject his signature style. We are especially fond of his ink splashes and incorporation of razor blades in the process. From there we tell Wilson the general colours that certain key elements should be, but leave him to build the palette based off the mood he derives from each scene.
CBY: You thank Shane Sydall (who runs ComX Studios – the publisher of Gods Among Men) and Gary Chaloner (who also got a shout-out from Tim McEwen in our interview around his role in the recent issue of Greener Pastures). Can you tell us a bit about their contributions and guidance in this process, and how you ended up publishing with ComX Studios?
AM: We spoke to Gary first in the early development stage, which was a privilege considering his prior works alongside Will Eisner and other industry professionals. It was a significant moment for us at a time when we had no credentials to our name. In fact, Gary was the one who suggested the notion that marketing the book as a true-crime title could work to our advantage.
Shane was the first Australian publisher who gave us a shot at ComX Studio, which we are grateful for. We have since amicably parted ways with ComX Studio, for Gods Among Men to be published under our company name, Cynation Comics.
CBY: There’s a pretty grounded visual style well-suited to a true crime genre book. What sort of guidelines or points of reference did you provide for Ben and Wilson from the broader comics landscape? Which comics set the gold standard for how you want to present yourself in the medium?
JM: Telling is seldom as powerful as showing. So, in order to have Ben understand where the story came from, we would bring him to actual locations in the book and I would narrate the events to him as he stood there. While there, we also took many photographs for Ben to reference when drawing the buildings and characters.
AM: We are greatly inspired by the quality of story and art that came out of Spawn and Kiss: Psycho Circus. I’m a big fan of the early boundary-pushing storylines by Todd McFarlane and the eloquent scripts of Brian Holguin. We sent Ben and Wilson illustrations by Greg Capullo and Angel Medina to try and convey how dark material can be explored in a stylistic manner.
CBY: Good to know the legacy of other creators that fed into the style you’ve achieved with this title. Without spoiling anything, there’s a really great scene involving food preparation. I saw in this Happy Mag interview both of you mentioned food as significant points of inspiration. How does cuisine connect each of you to your art beyond what you reveal on the page? What commonalities do you both see between production in a kitchen and a studio, and how do your individual tastes and approach to making a finished product differ from each other’s?
JM: Food to me is the most honest of all art forms. People often say “Art is subjective” but I think it must also be objective. One can’t bend or break the rules if there aren’t any rules to begin with. Chefs are able to push the boundaries of creativity but if you burn a steak it’s irrelevant how artistic your idea was.
True creativity flourishes in limitations, not in their absence. In the comic medium where anything is possible, we have to impose limitations on ourselves in order not to stray too far from relatability.
AM: When it comes to food, I think I’m more accurately a glutton than I am a connoisseur. However, beyond the subjectivity of preferences for genre/cuisine, I think that I try to base my discernment on a core question: “Does it taste good?” / “Is the story compelling?” It’s something I consider when contemplating if I’ll eat a dish again, or continue reading a series. In terms of differing tastes, I’d say Josh primarily draws inspiration from outside of the comic medium, whereas I tend to draw more from within. Like combining lemon garlic butter sauce with kimchi prawn fried rice – it works, trust me.
CBY: Garlic and butter are a winning combination, and I can’t imagine them making a kimchi-seasoned dish any less delicious, so I’ll definitely trust your judgement there. Josh, I understand you play guitar in a band called ANA, and it is accompanied by a comic book through your Cynation Comics. I’ve been exploring the linkage between the music and comics communities, particularly in the context of a pervasive Do-it-Yourself ethos that provides the full breadth of diversity across each medium. Aaron, I know you’ve been up-close in this process with your filmmaking. Can you tell us a bit about your other creative work beyond Gods Among Men?
JM: In my band, ANA, I play guitar but also write the story for the ANA comic. In the Metal genre, many listeners are also fans of comics. To us it seemed like a logical step to merge the both.
From a marketing perspective it was also beneficial as each medium promoted the other, thus allowing us to maximise our time and effort as much as possible.
With the ANA comic we had even more freedom to write than with Gods Among Men, so for me, it was imperative that before we began the story we knew how it would finally end. Intentionality for me is one of the tenets of being a creative.
AM: Josh and I have been collaborating creatively as far back as 2017 – back then (by and large, still) we had to do everything by ourselves. No funding, formal training, nor prior experience. I started out trying to make amateur short films, which then evolved into ‘music films’ in tandem with Josh’s band at the time, Cynation.
I enjoyed the process of transforming words into a visual reality whether it was in horror, drama or comedy. The process feels like breathing life into a thing yet to be living.
CBY: The use and sale of drugs is a central topic across the plot of issue #1 (and I won’t get into any further spoilers). You’ve set up a multifaceted cast with many relationships and responsibilities laid out between characters. Can you tell us a bit about what this story holds in store for readers? How many issues do you anticipate will be required to tell the tale and what sort of moral arc would you like your readers to expect?
JM: Drugs and crime have always fascinated society. Everyone has been touched by them in one way or another and yet we speak of the subject cautiously and in hushed tones. This appears to begin as a story about drugs, but at its heart you could say it’s a love story. Not romantic love, but a passion that only humans experience and relate to. Drugs are merely one aspect (albeit a rather attractive one) of the human condition.
AM: Morality exists on a spectrum of grey, and Jason is neither a hero nor a villain. He is as much himself as he is us. His tale will run for quite a few issues, but we know each major beat the story takes and exactly how his story will end. We start at the gateway where many can relate and self-identify, but with each passing issue, readers should begin to question not just Jason, but their own role in the story.
CBY: On that note, I don’t want to spoil the comic for anyone, but you issue a command in closing; “ask more of yourself.” What does this self-reflection entail? Motivation instigates change when given direction and purpose, so when both of you are asking more of yourselves, what is it you’re asking yourself to undertake that goes above and beyond?
JM: Freedom is a pillar of the western world and I certainly agree in its importance. However, freedom isn’t free. With every freedom we are afforded it must be accompanied by an equal portion of responsibility. Understandably, responsibility is a lot less sexy compared to freedom but it is crucial not just to maintain our rights but to also enact change.
There is much that is wrong in the world and most of it is beyond our individual reach, but within each of us there lies choice and that is truly powerful. Asking more of yourself is to constantly work at being the best version of yourself you can be.
AM: When we entered the comic industry as the ‘new kids on the block’ earlier this year, the task seemed insurmountable to compete with the pre-existing talent. Instead I set myself the goal of constantly conquering who I was yesterday. It enabled me the ability to see the prospective limitlessness of what we could achieve. Several months later, I received a message from a veteran in the Australian comics scene praising us for the work we’ve done getting our books stocked nationwide.
CBY: It’s no small feat getting material out into the world, guys, so congratulations on the effort! To close, can you give us an idea of other creative work (comics, music, film, literature, etc.) you’ve found inspiring lately that is completely unrelated to Gods Among Men? What should everyone make sure they check out once they’re done reading your comic?
AM: I’d be beside myself if I didn’t take this opportunity to plug our other upcoming title, ANA #1, which is debuting in January 2025 during the ANA European Tour. It couldn’t be any more different!
Also go read Stray Dogs, go listen to the entire album of Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band by The Beatles (mind-altering substances optional), go watch Life is Beautiful by Roberto Benigni, and definitely read Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton.
JM: Chef’s Table (Netflix series), River Monsters (TV Series), The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway, The life story of Ernest Shackleton.
CBY: You guy slipped some classics in there! Thanks for joining us today, both of you. For our readers, please provide any portfolio, publication, and social media links you’d like folks to check out, and we look forward to seeing what you come up with next!
AM: It’s been an absolute pleasure, you’ve got some of the best questions around!
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